MrBeast Meets Silicon Valley: Making Tech Fun Again

0:00 All right. So, welcome to the Tesla Pod. Adil Mania. Your I just got to know that your surname is literally Mania, right? It's fun. So you're I mean you're one of the most interesting founders that I've had in the podcast, right? So, and this is an episode that I've been really looking forward for so long. Right. your entire thesis right is actually around that tech media is boring. Yes. Right. So and what you're trying to kill is right I mean what you're basically telling in your thesis as well. Right. So the whole of like you know all the podcast that's been done here in Silicon Valley it's literally founders talking to founders right and I mean here we are two founders talking to each other in a in a self-driving car right somewhat different right but have you already lost here are no I think I think it's cool like I'm not like how can I say this I'm not like we should stop doing podcasts I just think that the space is kind of such ated somehow but and there's still a lot we can do with what we have like we have lots of inputs, lots of materials, lots of cool things we can talk about and lots of people and we keep bringing back the same kind of

1:24 Recipes to like I think podcast for me like that's number two. I think number one for me is launch videos like there's lots of launch videos every day, same ones again and again and again and 90% cloud generated. Exactly. So I just think that people are making generally cool stuff and but they don't market them in the way they should be done and I'm not talking about like small founders specifically. I'm talking about everyone like even from for me like from yeah from anyone who's doing like some B2B stuff to Waymos themselves like they don't know how to make the experience feel magical unique even though it's already unique. Like you are in a car look at us right now we're in a car it's driving itself that's the future.

2:06 Yeah. But we like it feels like ah why security safety a lot of questions and I think that's yeah I think we should push more for just we should tell what's happening in a better way. I think that's what is missing. I mean what caught my eyes first was like you know your recap right which you started off like you know by doing a tech recap right of everything. I mean because there's so much happening here right I mean I don't think anyone human it's possible to keep up at all right but you condense into a greater degree right and then you came up with recap right I mean first of all like I mean that's how Silicon Mania caught my attention as well right why don't you first of all like you know give a 30 seconds version of what Silicon Mania is for ones who don't know yes so Silicon Mania is the most entertaining tech media ever and the idea is like I say like just to talk about like what's happening inside the culture in just a funny and entertaining way. and I think yeah for me like that's that was the goal from the start. We started with recaps the magazines, the night show, the buzzer.

3:21 And each one of them was just like okay this is what is happening but now you will consume the same things but with just more spice and it worked. People love that. You love you talked about the recaps the magazines you love them too much like all that was like interesting to again just to show the same things but just with a different angle. That's where I think we're good odds. Right. Right. And your site literally says it's the most entertaining tech media ever. Ever. Period. Ever. No one has ever done something that fun I think in the history of tech. and without being like too much ego. I think that's really real because I've seen and I've consumed a lot of tech media for a long time since I was a kid.

4:05 Yeah. And yeah, I haven't like had those things where like okay this is really I think I think the only thing that can really compete with what we were doing at with recaps and everything for me was Silicon Valley HBO show HBO aren't tech and media and techrunch are boring wired are boring. Bloomberg are boring. a16z stuff are boring. Like YC are boring. Founders Inc. what they're doing they're boring. Even though I love those guys like I think yeah I think like when it comes to fun and I think yeah this maybe the second thing I've seen which again wasn't the media itself was the tech show. People told me lots about that right they go on stage they start roian founders that's fun that's entertaining but again that's not a media just like a band with tour. which I think it's cool. I just think like again the space needs way more of science is like completely different and that speaks to much more people.

5:02 I mean it's like I mean you get I mean people like watching Shark Tank but Shark Tank is not literally just tech per se, right? So I do you think that's actually the missing piece? Because like something that I read that you've written about, right? So there's nothing I mean because now if you like you look at I mean my wife I think she's somewhat anti- AI right so because you get these two categories of people right I understand people I understand people like I understand their fears I understand why they are anti and I think it's logic like they're not like being just dumb I think some people are dumb for so many reasons but I think like the majority aren't and when you compare like okay this is again what they are getting from us and from the whole world as informations of course you will be anti like I don't know if you are living in Arizona and people are telling you hey we are just gonna put those data centers to like to make our models be better so we can sold you the models but like the we require electricity that you will pay for it you're like wait so these guys that are bringing stuff to take value from me and sell it to somebody else I'm not getting anything from it I would be against that like I'll be like no AI I don't want AI and I think Again, that's the stories we're telling people. We aren't telling people that this is part of the progress and if we stop progress, we will never have what we have right

6:24 Now. And it happened in the past. It has always happened. I think people should fight for like those kind of those rights and try to get as much advantage as they can from AI and from this progress. But I don't think progress should stop. We should like we should win all from the progress. That's the challenge. It's like okay, how we can make everyone in the world get something from it. not just like 10 companies or like only employees from entropic will be rich and everyone else them. I think that's the wrong approach. the right approach is like okay how we can make everyone rich something from this jobs or like I don't know like comfort health there's a lot of things we can explore we shouldn't stop the progress stop progress should stay that's what they hate like when I see those people like going on the streets and claiming something and their whole thing is like stop yeah you race like what the guys know like keep the race more you racist it persist right that's the other side of the story even Why like keep the race? The race is good. The problem is the distribution like they should fight. of okay you want to race raise race if you want but share with us like okay you are on tropic make this amount of money but share with people like you should open your I know they want to IPO but like they should do I don't know like something should be done so those companies could make every I would say American but even like in general everyone take something from it

7:48 And that's what we had like if we go back in history and we think about let's say Apple or Microsoft yes they made those their employees so rich thanks to watch all the computers and everything but the same time thanks to them somebody in some country got a computer and started like and had a job thanks to that or same with YouTube like YouTube started from here and it worked so well and then right now you can see some random kid in Indonesia and he become a content creator he's earning money and so it's cool they are bringing to people jobs and I think EI will do that way more in the next years and that's what I hope that you can will go and focus the fights for it's not hey guys we should stop the progress but it's more like hey guys can we just can we share the wins and I think everyone will be happy at the end and I think I mean one thing that I really like about what you do is right so is that there is part of education as well right so then there's a set of people now we spoke about like there's I mean two buckets of people right who are well progressive right okay now this is great right I mean we need to like you know support progress you should we should not be killing progress right and we should like you know fully be advocating and the other side they are completely shutting it off right and I

9:06 Think that's also coming also because like you know they are not educator enough right they are completely shutting off like you know kind of what's happening in tech right and you are trying to bring that in a fun like you know way is that what your efforts are yes because for me it comes from One reason is like if you hear who are the loudest people in tech right now Samman Dario YC little bits even like YC I think for me it's the more insiders like if you go outside I think those people like the most interesting people that people listen to and people clip and they share on TikTok and everything and we hear those people the majority of the speech is hey guys we just created an AI that will take your job goodbye that's not our problem and they're like wait these guys hate us so we should hate them too like why? And that's for me where again the problem is we they will never say to people, hey, we made this EI and it will help someone do something. And I know the problem is even like worse because if they go out and I've seen this they've done like some good how can I say it's little bit of marketing campaigns around like some openi has helped this health institute to get something out of AI whatever but those stories they're like they aren't shared enough because there aren't controversy enough when we go outside and some journalist we ask him

10:28 What do you think of the future of the jobs and they like oh I think AI will cause lots of damage and which And I think he's right. But I think that's not the right way to say it. Like you cannot say to people, hey, we are taking your jobs. No, like you should say to people, hey, we're making progress. Like we are going to this new future that will be completely different and that will open new opportunities. There is opportunities. It's impossible. I know some people believe in this. I don't believe in the future where like everything will collapse. I think it's impossible. Even if like we have this EIG and it can do everything, whatever. I think humans will fight for their rights and to get whatever they need and you cannot just let this smart thing just takes everything and you sit down and watch it. I think that's too much and I feel like that's impossible because people keep resisting which is good. So to come back to the narrative for me it's like so okay how you can win those people over I think it comes from showing them that what's what they're missing out and for me it's the tech itself is what's happening it's the magic that is ringing and I think that's what we would love to fight for is like okay we just want to show people hey guys this is just this is cool like use it like play with it do something with it because I think there is some as like I think the future is bright and I think there's a lot of opportunities And we

11:45 Should be the ones saying to them, hey guys, enjoy. And that's for me the main challenge. And you said I mean you're 100% right. So then like you know you said that I mean food it has its own shows right? Gordon Ramsey's right. Fashion has its own shows right? Sports has shows right? Music has shows right a lot right even politics right has shows right? but tech if you really think about it that's what really moves the world right and like you know we are here at the heart of Silicon Valley right? and really like you know most of the tech is really built here so and there's nothing that's worth watching on a Saturday night that you can like you know say watch it with your I love watching like you know let's say Bloomberg go like you know Y I mean because those are the stuff that's available for us right now right but then that's not something you can watch with family for fun on a Saturday night right is that the problem that you're really trying to solve here I think that's was something thing I believed in the beginning when we started it's like okay we should give to people like some way or some media to consume. I think the problem is like right now I just believe it's so up online that even if you push like this kind of okay we're making these shows and they will please the people. I think people, how can I say this?

13:06 I don't believe today that if you just drop cool content around tech, you will change people minds. I think people are really furious that we need to get closer to them in a different way, right? And that's I think what's missing right now. I think that's what we'll try to fight for what's next. I'm giving you like some hints for what's coming next because like I told you before we start that I won't say to you exactly what's coming next but and we keep dropping these hints but yeah I think like we need to be closer to people in a way that feels unique, magical, special and this is something I just think like a show won't be enough. I believe in that for a moment. I was like okay if we can just let's do like some kind of it's just one part of it. Is that the case? Yeah, but I like how can I say it?

13:54 I think if let's say okay, let's say we'll drop I know people ask for that a lot. I mean for insiders it's interesting is the okay Silicon Mania should do like some new Silicon Valley show. Imagine we do that. Okay, for people inside the bubble they will be so happy. They'll be like oh okay we have this new show like the cartoons we've done but imagine longer like 25 30 minutes. But will we change anything in the world? I'm not sure. I think we like as you said like Saturday nights with your family you bring the recap in front of them imagine the recap it's like 25 minutes. Yeah. Will they watch it? No. They're like ah I don't care that much about this because but for people here they will watch it every week because it speaks to them too much. I think for me the problem is like that's what we are trying to solve from the beginning is to go to people outside of here and be like hey guys don't miss on this please because for me tech brought me a lot of things in my life. I'm so grateful for all what we've had and everyone who was here and built something from Silicon Valley to the world and even outside of here like internet started in Switzerland. So I think like there's a lot of cool things we've had from the whole world and we need to keep showing people hey guys this is cool and it's funny like people they hate AI but and they hate tech in a way but the same time they will tweet about it using tech phones and tech social media and then they will go and take their cars which has and they will write it with

15:12 And then they're like yeah wait can you please help me write this and they're asking that EI is bad like what and I think For me again I understand why people are furious. I just think we can touch them differently and that's I think our mission and I hope that we can succeed in that. If we do it I'll be happy cuz I will just bring more progress to the world like what's makes us special as humans was always progress like lot of species they stop at moments like they are like that and then like it's the progress is so slow that nothing happens over like millions of years for humans we went from fire to AI in a matter of years. That's really crazy. People like don't even realize how much we are so smart as a species just to go that fast. I know we have this dream especially here of this AGI that should be even like more smarter than us. I think we're smart enough to figure out everything and that's what makes us cool and unique and survive.

16:07 And I think we shouldn't stop that. We cannot fight progress. Like that's the worst thing ever to do. Just keep making progress, keep on the doors but again fight for distribution, fair distribution like okay everyone should win of this. I think I think that's a fair thing to ask for like that's not really bad especially like you know since you were talking about distribution right so because that's the main thing right now right we because I mean now I mean one thing that I read recently right MVP is dead right now it's about MVD what is the minimum visible distribution that you can actually get right now because anyone can build a build a MVP within like you know what within a day's time now right so that distribution is the absolute key right and I mean how are you like is that what you're really advocating to right so helping others like you know helping ones who are building cool things in tech to find that distribution is that one of your main goals to help founders in some sense yeah good question I don't know right I mean I think we helped some people thanks to what we've done like I don't know for example the buzzer some founders were there they got like some kind of fame thanks to the thanks to it

17:28 And that's cool like I'm happy for them I just we how say we don't push that much like we haven't been focused on that for as like a priority I see like between all we have I mean we just like if we believe that if you make cool things people will talk about you and we haven't like took those opportunities where we were like okay let's just I mean I guess as I said like that's a problem that we have never been considering as a priority like we avoided it for long time I see right so basically I mean this is how I see this right I know that like you know you have a lot of things going on right this is like sort of Mr. Beast meets Silicon Valley, NBC meets like you know the most ambitious founders like you know in the world right so which part of MrBeast is an is and like you know which part is NBC in your opinion?

18:25 Good question. I think MrBeast is what we started. It's funny because like when I wrote that manifesto which was in February, it was just before we do the tech original games and I was like okay like this city needs more challenges and we've done that. we've done an event that looks exactly like what she was doing and that was so fun and that was like one way to do it which is like okay you bring the founders you give them some challenges you love watching challenges online so we've done that and then for the NBC part I think for me it was like more like more like the buzzer yeah like those kind of productions where people that watch them because they're just high quality well produced and fun and entertaining and you can watch them like on Saturday night if you want I think that's the value we are trying to bring with those kind of productions. But I mean what's shared about them is like at the end those two publishers that we say they drop shows. I think the space is missing shows. We don't have enough and especially shows that we speak to the outside. I think that's the main thing that I feel like it's still missing right now. So we haven't seen a lot like even Mafia from Founders Fund wasn't really outside that was still inside the media. So yeah, I think like there is still a lot to do on that space, right? And you wrote and I'm quoting here, right? If there's one thing I know for sure, right? No one in SF understands media more than me.

19:48 Yeah, 100%. So that's a huge line for it in writing. How would you defend this? I've been in this space for a long time. I for me just it's not the time, it's the curiosity. And I think even the time when I started resisting and be like no but I don't really care that much. Let's just do something else. I went into consumer social for a long time. That was fun. And then you I kept coming back to this thing and like I don't know like I know people don't care that much but I'm the kind of people who spend I don't know like a night for example just analyzing LinkedIn comments understanding what's the patterns why people comment at the end and now I know exactly like there is five different reasons why people comment on LinkedIn there it's always the same and there is you cannot go out of those five reasons same for Instagram stories there's always five six reasons why you will like drop a story, it will come back to the same like those specific topics. So, it's easy to understand those algorithms in a way for Twitter and I mean when I want to go viral on some platform I went viral. We've done it on I before like on TikTok that's why people today like oh why you not on TikTok I'm like I've won the game before like I don't care.

21:03 Instagram same. Twitter was like the last one I was struggling for. I haven't really went big on YouTube yet. YouTube problem like with YouTube is like it requires a lot of consistency and I hate that. It's like okay YouTube is like doesn't require that. H I think X is difference. X is like you can yes you need to be consistent 100% but it's just different like it's YouTube is like you need to be consistent with low quality with high quality content and that's just too much for me. like okay I can like drop I don't know I can like show up every day to drop something but show up every day to drop high quality stuff every day the problem is like for me it's like I always increase the bar so by I know like so I would never be satisfied with what I have which means automatically that with YouTube requirements is like okay you just need to do the same show every week for example or like yeah at the moment I'm like okay I need to like improve the show and improve and improve and improving requires lots of energy so I put more energy into improving less into just keeping the same things which makes it just more challenging at the end and that's why I think YouTube like I haven't got that moment yet but the rest yeah it was like LinkedIn before like everything like when I want to do something in media I just do it and it works and that's the magic about it right and you have actually

22:26 Shipped five different formats right in 8 months right that is the 6 months in 6 months right the recap the magazine, the night show, the tech original games, the and the buzzer. Right. So that's a lot of swings, right? Within 6 months time, right? You can add locked in. No. Yes. No. No. Right. Right. Which I couldn't mention. Right. Is this part of a deliberate strategy or are you just throwing things at wall right now? I to see what picks. No. So it's half. So I love going for like I don't just have an idea this morning and then I drop it. I take a little bit more time of okay what should I do exactly? but that was like how can I say I just love following my intuition and being like okay this is exactly the things where I'm like I should go for them. And the recaps was like they started after like two different trials of something else that didn't really take off that much and then I had that hit on September it worked and I was like okay let's keep it monthly and then weekly the magazine it started because the recap was two was weekly and I was missing something for the month and I was like okay I can't just do four videos a week and then another video at the end of the month. It's just too much. I need

23:50 Something different. And then I was like, wait, magazines, maybe there's a space for it. And then you go and you see what works, what doesn't. what else? The Nitro the Nitro was something that I really believed in from the beginning. And I still believe in there is some space for it. I just don't know exactly if it's worth it or not right now. and the buzzer I mean I had two options either like I mean the first option was to go for the 20 vest one, the 20 investors, one founder or one found one 20 founders, one investor. I think that for me the problem with that show is that when I watched it the sideman version of it the there was an idea or you an idea that was like the first version of the buzzer it was supposed to be like 20 founders one investor right and the problem for that is like when I watched the sideman version where it's like the original one where it's like 20 girls one guy and the problem is like when you see those productions it's all about the guy the more he is funny and entertaining the more you will watch two hours the more he is boring the more you are dead and I was I cannot put let's say 25 minutes 40 minutes of production where I bring like a lot of people who put a lot of money and then it's boring just because like the main character isn't interesting enough and or entertaining enough I would say and that's for me where I was like okay what we can do that is different. So I kept thinking and then we end up with we end up with this idea of the buzzer where it's like it's the button from cuts where you have like one. So even if

25:16 The investor isn't like giving much spice and entertainment, you can just buzz him and then you have another one. So you and you have like those kind of two play two different players and it gives you like a lot more how can I say entertainment during the format. I think that's what we care a lot about when we produce something especially for us. So, and I think yeah, that was a hit. And but also we've done some things that didn't take off that much. Like for example, we've done the drone interviews. We have had interviews with founders that was filmed like with a drone that was following us from in front and from tops which is like weird. No one's doing with us. And it was fun and but for me it was not us. Like something was missing like we've done two I think. First one was with Alan from Noio and the second one was with Charl from Strawberry browser and the videos were fun. I think it was interesting and but I don't know something wasn't there and for me it was just like that's not us that's all like and yeah just bad feeling and I was like we should just tell them. Same like with Locked in Locked in we were like okay let's just create this new page and let's cover news. the same way fab didn't work. green work like we tried it for 3 weeks I think nothing big that much out of it so I was like ah maybe this is not like the thing that and you feel this I think when you

26:41 Start experimenting with some stuff you feel it so we only kept what really worked lucky because like I think we had like four or five good hits that's why I'm saying like I if I experiment all the ideas I have in my mind I think I will be every day I will wake up and be like hey guys I have an idea let's and you will see like new production every day I'm not doing that so I'm trying like to filter a little bit before like I drop And yeah, I think that's the balance I'm trying to find. It's like okay, we should stay experimental and still try some stuff because like you never know what will what will happen exactly. But I think at the same time we should think 5 minutes before like we spend time on budget on production because sometimes you just drop that money for nothing. I think that's not worth it.

27:22 So out of I mean you spoke about a lot of formats, right? And then you spoke about some that worked, some that didn't work, right? which one is working the best right now? Is it the recap? The recap was the best. Yes. Right. that's was 100% the best. I mean, so that's the thing. The question is, what do you mean by working? If we talk numbers, recap, hype, recap. I think what touched people the most and people still remember it even today was the magazine. I see. People like love those magazines so much and they had it. They touched it, they felt it, and that was like so unique that everyone asked for it. It was hype. And are you selling it or?

28:05 So we've had sponsors. So grateful for every sponsor we had. Had lots on that magazine. That was cool. And for me, like that's it was something that people loved way more. I feel like yeah, people like they were like, "Oh, the saw the recap. That's cool." But like when they were talking about the magazines, it's like, "Ah, do you have one? Like I want one." And it they were way more excited about it. And I think for me that's what means working, right? It's like, okay, just get people so excited about something. And I think for me, I said like the magazine was the biggest hits I think we've had. Right. Right. Right. I see. And so recap, right now it's at 17 episodes, right? I think Yeah, I think it was 17. Yes. 17. And then that is by far the most consistent format, right? Yeah, we've done. Yes.

28:48 What did you learn right between say episode 1 and 17? Wow, good question. I think my biggest of the recap, which is funny because everyone was so many people on Twitter was just like saying about the recaps, but it's okay. I remember like this these two three people and they were every time I recap they were tweeting it and they were like, "Yeah, Silicon Valley people have no say. they how people can even laugh on this and everything. And the funny thing is that my our most successful recap ever was the one I think is still pinned right now on the channel and it's like 1.2 million views and that recap was one where I put lots of energy to make it really fun. It was the only one I think from the beginning where it has not just people showing up but it has it like it had like those three I think three or four scenes and each scene was really funny like generally how can I say it written in a way that feels like comedy and people loved that they were like and that's something that's made me understand that people yes they love when they are featured on something and

30:09 I know people like again they were saying bad about the recap because they're like oh this is just like he takes people and put them and that's all and the magic for me was the day I went further and I was like okay now let's give you real comedy people like that's that was like the biggest one ever and I think for me that's the biggest learning is like people in SF even though there is still lots of work people still have taste people like still judge well on socials which is good it gives you hope right then coming back to your print right So the print magazine which I have with your signature as well right so I absolutely loved it right so these are two issues right now right so everyone else like you know right now they are on digital only right and I don't think there's any magazine right tech magazine that's there right that is a printed version as per say right there's like work in progress I think from stripress but it's not same I received recently culture slope it's who still like the problem is like people who do magazines usually they are still playing the with all the rules.

31:15 It's like you bring people, you do interviews, you do those interviews in a magazine and you feel like 64 pages is like very serious, right? Exactly. We want to do something different. I feel like they feel like, okay, this is like me somehow. I think that's where it was interesting. I think if I only cared about the business itself and nothing else. I think we could have just kept the magazines for like a long time, we could have made amazing money out of it. But I don't know just think like for me the I'm going to say it's the what we are trying to do is like way more than all of that. So that's where I'm like okay maybe we should go for more and yeah for me like that's the main challenge is and that's why like we stop those magazines.

31:58 Right. Right. Is it completely killed or like you know is at a pause right now? We will see. Right. I as I said like I can't say anything about future station. Right. And but if I can say one thing, people will love what's coming next. I mean some it's the same thing. It's like I remember when I stopped the recaps, everyone was like why did you stop recap and everything like and is it on a pause right now? We'll see. I mean some people online I remember on X there's always somebody ask like oh this is your dumbest decision ever. I love when people say that because usually it means like you are controlling enough that you are taking a real bet and right now we're taking new bets that may end up being the best one we've done since the beginning which you can't really speak about right now. Right. Ah nah right and the night show it is live events right so it's a completely different format right so what is it like you know that in-person show that really gives that you cannot like you know do it from something like recap I mean in person is special because like you bring people they feel something in front of them and I think there's some magic inside it and for me the night I always believed in that I mean we've been lucky because we've had two the first one I mean The main thesis of the night show for people who never heard about it was to do exactly what Jimmy Fallon is doing with Hollywood celebrities but we do it with tech. So like the same vibes which means like it's not a podcast it's some it's a

33:23 Show. So there's like games there is lots of specific productions that you add on top of the show and that's something that makes it like unique. And for example, I remember like when this is something that you only see in shows, not podcasts, is like the host usually brings something and the guest should react on it. Like for example, I don't know, Jim Far can show some parts of some series on Netflix and then ask the actor what do you think of this like ah how was it? And that's the kind of things that again you don't find in podcast. Usually podcast is just conversation. So, and we've done that like and we were lucky because like so when I had that idea I was like okay let's go for it. I've asked every single Silicon Valley celebrity everyone like no one has right to say I didn't ping them. I pinged every famous person in everyone and it was only nose only one guy replied and that guy was Sebastian Tran the founder of Waymo and he was so humble in a way I can't even understand like he said yes to something that he didn't even know what was it or why or who is this guy why I'm doing it and I was like okay why not I would love to do it with you so and then he joined us and we've done it in founders inc that was really crazy like we've had I think 45 people

34:41 In front of us and we tried to record. We had some big issues with the production and then we ended up just doing it there. It was so fun because like we've had for example moments where we went on the streets to record the street interview with people in asking them about the way and then we showed that to Sebastian. were like a what do you think of what people were divided some people were like ah this is cool some people were like this is bad or same for example we went too far and this is something we've done like just to show you like the level of crafts we've dropped into the night show and now I still believe like maybe there's something around them is like for example we went and asked his son to send us a video and then we showed him the video and the video was so emotional that he started crying on stage I was like ah that's cool sorry against the So I see like I think I think that's something that's so special. And also it was lots of games. we had lie detector like lots of crazy stuff happened that night. And then we're like okay we should do another one because I was just furious about the first one because of the production. So we've done the second one. Same I went for the guests. No one wanted to join.

35:51 Just to make it clear I've been trying for two months to bring someone on stage. Everyone's like I'm busy. they have something their communication officers they are they are like ah I don't know if it's worth it whatever it's okay I don't come from some Peter te background whatever so it's okay I understand so we've done the second one I was like okay what we can do if we don't have any celebrity we tried until the last minute people don't understand that even 10 minutes before the show I was still pinging people and be like if you can join right now I'm bringing you on stage right now and we couldn't bring anyone from Silicon Valley So which again I understand. so what happened after is we ended up doing a talent show. So and people will see like the videos we're dropping on the next weeks.

36:36 Maybe by the time this podcast will be out we will be already like dropped those videos. And the idea was so we had like comedy we had music. I took people like in this experience where they went from the recaps to the to the fund raise. That was like the whole trajectory. like I took them back to January and till June and I was like okay this is this is Silicon Mania from the beginning to now and that was like the main story plus like all those moments of we cut with something else we've had like I think you were there or not no I was not there I wanted to make it but I couldn't make it crazy like so basically for we've done something that was so fun people love that we brought 67 box on stage right 67 that was a lot to prepare and then the idea Yeah. Is every time we have a game or like there is something we bring someone from the audience on stage and he choose a number and then you open the box and surprise someone ended up with a Mac Mini.

37:32 Congrats for him, right? someone end up with balloons, whatever. like the prices were completely random and that was fun because like you give people that something that again they cannot have it on have it online because like it's complicated and you cannot just even if you offer people it's not the same feeling that's okay you went on stage you took the prize you opened it wow that was magical and then they feel something I think that's was the main goal of the show and it worked like same we brought dancers on stage that was so fun like to do it not many people do that here so I think yeah for me that's kind of the how can I say it's bringing the Vegas vibes to SF and I think that's where it was interesting right so you have rippling lemon labs postto yes convex composio pro right and way more right so all of them as sponsors right now and all of these like you know all within 6 months time right how did you land the first one what's the story behind that great question the first one I think the first one if I'm not wrong was I think it was super memory with driver you brought him on the podcast or not sorry you brought him on the podcast no you should you should you should the goat right I think I generally think he was the first one either him or compi right so the how did I do it good question

39:00 I think I remember it was for the tech original games so we were doing this events slashproduction at the same time. And the idea was like, okay, we're I was pitching them this idea for, okay, we're making this kind of MrBeast vibes where we do this kind of again like production and then we how can I say it's we will make yeah, we like bring founders, they will have this entertaining like day at the same time, we'll make like some videos on it and drop it online. And we s like I went to every community manager, communication manager, head of communication, head of marketing in every major company in SF. And I pinged all of them. I still have the list on my upnotes, the whole list.

39:45 And I think like I know some people might ask me for it. I think it's not updated anymore. So it doesn't it's not because people like they move so much from company to another here. So it's not like worth it. But and I was like pinging each one of them and I was like hey you are doing this would you love to join I got lots of nos like I think out of 60 people asked I had like three yeses or four yeses but that's enough that's all I needed and then we've done the first one and then we kept going and going and going until we landed like for example which was one of our last sponsors DCX same last sponsors microscope and like all of them they came like later I think it's easy when you are hype it's hard when are not hype. And also I think something that people miss about sponsors usually is like I think the question is like why should they sponsor at the end like what's what's makes I won't say makes you special like who are you talking to are is what you're doing valuable and sometimes even I would say the easiest thing is just to copy like if for example I don't know like random thing is like TVPN got sponsors because they had like live shows doing them every day ETN has done the same it worked I know some guys that doing like some live shows saying it works. So those kind of formats that proved that they can be sponsored. You can even like they took like inspiration from Formula 1 sponsoring and everything and that's

41:08 Stuff that works. Like I think there is generally like space for I don't know like if someone for example wants to make some tech hoodies that are supposed I think people pay for that a lot of money because like they proved that the how can I say the fashion industry it's open sponsors and it starts for me from like soccer and even soccer like recently they went from I think that's something I found so interesting is like for a long time wearing soccer jerseys was only like for the games. Right now, if you see every drop they do, every club in Europe, they are trying to make those jerseys become part of the culture. And some of them are really like wellmade where it feels like and you see the photo shots like they take those people and they put them like in near the water or something. They're like, "Okay, do be like this or be like this." Just like to make it feel like street wear somewhere. And if because they know if it becomes street where people can buy like 10 12 13 not just one jersey to go to play to play with it. Now it becomes like part of okay I just wear it even if I'm outside and the sponsors they have a lot to win if you can be as a human being wearing open AI and being outside that's worth it like for the case of if we stay like just in soccer if we you wear I don't know like uni bet or like some

42:30 Any brand you want like Louis Vuitton whatever they have a lot to win if you take their brand to the outside and I think that's where that's more than proof itself. So somebody brings that I think there's money in it. It's like it just worked. I mean when you think about it like say media it's a famously brutal business right? So and there's very few who's able to raise money for media as well, right? Because I mean one success story that I know from around here is like Silicon Valley girl, right? So she I mean her story was like quite inspiring as well, right? But like you know raising money for media it's very tough, right? And I mean you raised 325k preede congratulations, right?

43:17 350 350k, right? All right. Right. I didn't know that. Right. Congrats. So, what did you really tell the investors that, made them believe in this mission? I think you should ask them. I still don't know why. Why did you sell? I think I just said a bunch of random stuff. I mean, if you How can I say it? it's interesting because when you see the It's funny because when you see the people that really invested in us are people with long-term visions. And I think like if we talk about either if we talk about offline ventures with Dave and his wife and if we talk about Founders Inc. those funds, they're completely different than the rest. Like Founders Inc. they go for something that feels okay. it will work in and it will improve like the world and they go like for those thesis of okay we want technology like to be something interesting for the world and same for Dave and offline ventures like they believe a lot in offline and the magic of technology and everything and we're so aligned on that more than and I think they that's what worked for them and they saw like the progress and traction is important it's like okay it's if I go

44:37 Today or like if I went for the same people even like before without like go in for it. Like it just took some time because like they needed I was saying they need some proof but like they just need some traction and I think showing up every day every week until from like January to May and that thesis of okay we are doing this and they saw like the hype and how much it worked and how much like something happened that helped a lot after those months of work to show people that okay this is working and then we had some other people and I think like our fun is not like big enough. I think we need more way more than what we had. But I think it's enough for us like right now to go for what we would love to go for. It's funny because like my belief is I think every fund that missed on us in the beginning because they just classified us as media company and that's all I understand them because media company don't make money. Okay, I understand all of that. Thank you. I think we will go for something bigger.

45:41 And the moment you will do that and you will succeed, you'll be like ah why he didn't tell us that. I think your job as an investor is to find those signals. Even if the founder is saying like okay this is what I see right now. You should as an investor see that founder and the potential that he can have. you like you shouldn't and I'm saying this because like I received somebody sent me some text for from another investor who I didn't speak to but like this investor said something like I know Adil I think he's like smart enough I just wish if he was doing something else than media and I would invest in him and I'm like I mean you should invest in the founder like give him enough resources so we can like go for things and because the moment he clicks it that's what matters and as like I think we started as media company because this was relevance and I believe in that is for a long time I just think right now my belief is like we should go for something different and I mean they missed on it and they had opportunity I still have the list of all the funds I pinged and we had meetings with them and they said no it's okay I think they will have some money because they will invest in some other sas but I think they may miss on what we are creating and I would just feel bad for them later like they had the

47:04 Opportunity when we're still really small and before we do this switch and again we're still early I think we're still day one on what we will be doing in the future I'm so excited to see what this thing we're are making how it will look like in like 10 years for example 15 years if I'm still alive I think this is the case it will be interestingly crazy and I think by that moment And yeah, like I don't know like again I don't know what should happen like if it works they'll be like okay like this is it's funny because like if it works they like oh we should have why we missed on this and I don't know like do we end up doing the you know those people who dropped those screenshots when cursor was acquired and they're like ah I missed the opportunity bro you had the opportunity you should have taken like stop being on X and be like oh I should have done it like yeah thank you congrats and I think that's what may happen in the future again if it's not the case and we lose it's okay I at least I will go for what I'm believing in I believe in media for a long time I still believe in media I just think right now we should maybe do something that is more ambitious right and I think it's possible and what is the I mean I understand like you know so from

48:27 From say an investor standpoint what is exactly the business model here because like the main concern right and I think like that's what lot of the investors are having in their mind as well because like say I mean sponsorships is the main like you know source of revenue right 100% so like say because just based on sponsorships right side you know it's tough to build a like you know an a media empire right so is this like you know would this just be running once possible is actually on ramp to something much bigger. I think we should go for something bigger and I think that's what's happening next and because like sponsorship interesting I mean we're saying that but at the same time if you took the TDPL model they just had sponsors and that's all nothing else for a long time and then they were acquired at moments so it works even with sponsors I mean again it's special it's not really the it's not something that is so frequent but it happens like with starter story. Start story was like only sponsorship media company and then they got acquired. So it's possible. I just think that I just think like for me the problem is like the industry is still how can I say it's not that educated enough on the media industry. They don't understand anything about it and which is okay. Or like they

49:53 Have some data from Chachi where it says like yeah media don't make money. There isn't like many acquisitions. The space is crowded. why even media we need money and I think just there is something different and my belief is like I think AI is coming for every industry and it's also coming from the for the media industry 100%. So I think for us being on the edge we makes us always valuable more than anyone else just because like we try stuff we experiment with stuff we will do things that will make lots more hype and energy and I've seen it like I like I can say I like there was those people who tried to make those and I've seen like even some companies that were even like how can I say it's funded by X6Z or whatever and their thesis was okay let's make EI cartoons everyone's trying to do that everyone was trying to do that for a long time and the idea was like oh we can just make people be part of the cartoons but who cares and what happens like those tools they go into the products and they start making the products and like and then they struggle to get the users because this is media space in media space it's completely different it's better to start with the production than to start with the tool to make the production cuz like the tools yes

51:15 There's market for them yes you can make money off them yes you can get acquired but I still believe that you cannot get hype around what you are doing if you don't show people that it works and again I've seen those companies they struggle and they're still struggling because like they're like oh this is maybe there's a space for something but same time it's I don't know I think it's just so challenging And we see it's right so founders Inc. he's an investor in you right and then I that's where we met as well right so I came through the artifact batch right so what did that room do for Silicon Mania because I know that they are quite like you know driving their own content as well in some degree right so what did like you know what was the main contribution or like you know directional direction that they gave I think given us a roof with many more people and I think The worst things can come to you as founder is like being lonely and in the space. I think founding gives you that feeling of being surrounded by a family and that's so interesting. That's something I really like with the cohorts and everything. And I think cohorts was cool. I met a lot of amazing people doing hardware, doing software, doing media. even like were doing like some cool stuff. like I don't know I think this is Jason was like doing some magic with tech whatever. That was like so fun.

52:40 Go and Alex, they were doing like sleep tracker. Zach and Ibraim were working on some cyber security stuff like all the like Omar was doing vlogging social networks just surrounded by those people even though they aren't doing the same things as you but they are also in this journey of trying to make something and I think that's feeling of being surrounded by other people that's what matters more than anything else just being part of something I think it matters a lot I mean I'm 100% with you on that right so we got so much done within in that short period of time, right, than any other time, right? So that energy is absolutely something else. So like you know, real kudos to Founders Inc. for that, right? So right so then coming to your story Adil right so you've I mean one of the stories that I read up on right so before you built Silicon Mania right something that you build was anomaly space right so which is a hacker space in Paris right I mean quite a quite an interesting story on its own right which like you know 500 participants they've come all across from Europe right and then 100 people like you know you've created this cohort of like you know 100 people right and like you know most of these alumni has actually gone to race and get into YC as well right

54:02 But I mean one thing that I saw was that like you know you've written down on the fact that like you shut it down because no investor in Europe wanted to take the lead even though you've created something really valuable there right what is I mean what's this story and what actually happened yeah so started from the feeling that I had in I mean it's like continuity of what's happened before. So basically my second big company was before no money was called startup and it was like media company in France talking about startups and even before it was like more for young founders but then switched like really startups and we had a lot of productions like we're doing like podcast on Twitch we're doing interviews on TikTok. It was like interesting to play with and we had lots of sponsors even some government sponsor. I was so surprised by the quality of the sponsors. We had great partnerships and then I stopped. I stopped for one reason because I couldn't find my community like I was caring a lot about like my problem is like I'm a technical person so I always care about the technical side of things like the magic of the product like the beauty of the products and how much it's cool and useful and magical and in tech there is also some people who don't have that

55:22 Technical background they don't build themselves they are just cos because like it's cool being founder is a really like a luxury status today. So people love that people want to go for that and I was surrounded by those and I was like wait am I like a founder like or entrepreneur or like a tech founder like who am I at the end and again like I wasn't aligned with those people because people how can I say people they judge you by some stuff and I was being judged by the number of followers by the number of like the sponsors whatever I was like yeah I don't give a about this like I just want to make great stuff that's all and I care about I don't know like when division pro was out. I was so happy that day. Like that was magical. And again, I couldn't find that community in France. So I was like, okay, maybe something is missing in France. And then it took me some time until I came across build space with parza. And I was so happy during S5. I was online. That was like one of the best experiences I've had in my life.

56:20 And I was like, wait, this is my community. Like I love this energy of like, okay, just build something every week like founding. And I was like, "Oh, what? Why this is missing in Europe? Why no one in Europe had this kind of vibes and energy? Someone should bring this to Europe." And I've seen what was happening. Nothing was that culture. So I was like, "Okay, let's do it." And so we started and we had I remember like like I had two things about anomaly that was so fun in the beginning. The first one was I had a list of 10 people that was like okay if I start this space I will bring those 10 people with me and we'll be so happy and that's all I don't care about the rest of the world. And the second is the first version of such a thing because people speak about MVPs but like sometimes MVPs are like so crazy. It was basically the it was one night I brought two friends that I know they share the same energy and I was like what will happen? I mean I knew them from different contexts and they don't know each other. I was like okay what will happen if I bring them together into one under one roof what's going to happen and what happened after that night is like they went so close after they start working together and I was like wait if I can just create a space and that space in the beginning was just like my apartment and bring two people they become friends they talk to each other it's like they just share the same passion what will happen if that

57:43 Space is not my apartment is like a real office like when people can meet and that was the easiest it worked at one night and that g me like the feeling that okay I can do more and then I start like speaking to people from all around Europe from Denmark to Sweden to Lithuania to Romania to like Germany, France, Spain and the more we like I spoke to people the more I was like okay maybe there's a need maybe there's a need and then we started like talking about it and we ended up with 500 applicants by the end it's we had a lot of people I think what was special about it and that's maybe what I regret the most is like we tried to bring the American energy to Europe where it was like okay let's just make things make big things and just make things and we don't care but he didn't had money to make it survive for a long time and this moment we needed support from some people I was left with two options three options max two options max of investors and both of them said no so I was like okay if there is no more options what should I do and even like people were kind of how can I say it Europeans they need they need proof like they need you to fly before they're like oh we can fund your flights and they don't believe they won. They have really struggled with that and that's something everyone knows. So I think that's my problem is like I was pitching them Google X. I was like yeah Europe needs like this kind of crazy lab

59:06 Where people can just go there and dream and create like something crazy. If we just give them resources we can end up with the craziest bets ever. And it was like yeah no thank you. And that's what happened. It's like it was just too much I think for Europe which is cool if they want to keep doing insurance companies and risk management companies. I think it's good. It's not it's not something I'm against. I just think like my belief and that's what I hate about this story is like the this European talents are amazing. Engineers are amazing in Europe. They are perfectionists. They know exactly how what to go for. They drop like they work a lot and in smart way. I just think from a cultural perspective, you just need to be like Americans to just do things like stop overthinking, stop being scared, stop optimizing for the flights before you fly. Just fly it and if it fails, you start again and it's okay. It's okay. Parts of this like we will go to Mars because there's this guy called he has been trying for years and he will keep trying. It's not a okay, it should be perfect before we fly. No, just try. If it works, good. If it doesn't work, we keep trying. We keep trying. Failure is part of the process and Europeans and failure is like it's complicated. So yeah, that's what I hated a little bit because I still think even

1:00:25 Today like after one year I still think there is a need a big need for such a space in Europe. So if someone want to do it, I would love to help. I just think if someone want to do it, he should disconnect from the whole environment which is annoying because like I think what Europe needs and that's what the guys from F8 they're doing. it feels they are in Finland and I think what is cool about them is like they even though they are still connected a little bit to slash and everything. I think what they should do is like they should be this kind of banker where no one has access to that. I think someone should build some bunker in Switzerland. They have a lot of bankers because of the World War II. So I think they should use one of those and turn it into like some founders thing. And if you get a DM of some European investor, just don't reply. And that's my problem. I reply to those people and I was like, "Ah, we should talk with you and everything." I have nothing against them. I think they're cool. I just think they will kill your own mission. And that's a human.

1:01:20 I think when I arrived here, it was when it was over. So Uber is a difference. He is a difference. Yeah. He's been here for a long time. So like what does this mean to go from something that feels Yeah. something that is special like something that really works and I think it's different and I think that's where it's interesting. Yeah. So coming to hot takes right in media right so what is the hottest take in media that you haven't still put on your website even that's a very good question how take well let me put it in a more narrow way I mean it's not that because people know it I just think if you are in tech space I think being a hot woman will help a lot. That's something 100%. 100%. And I think Corgi they know this so well.

1:02:20 Congrats for them because they are cooking with that strategy. I think it helps a lot. I think yeah the space needs more women. So of course it will like show up even easier and you will get more hype. I think yeah I think like for media companies being like a woman really helps a lot like nothing against like not being sexist whatever I just think like it's an opportunity so if you're a woman you want to succeed there is really like space in tech for more women to talk about tech which is good I think it's like those are markets some markets like needs may some markets like needs I don't like each market needs some something specific some markets they just want people to be like I don't know if you go to finance and banking they want to actually be conformist and like to be inside that matrix and for tech they want you like to be different and like an anomaly and completely like an outsider. So I think each space needs someone and I think in the tech space tech media space I think again being a woman we have a lot right love that so what's the most overrated tech podcast right now you don't have to name it if you don't want right but if you want you can good question you wants me to go into some troubles you can skip it if you want no I'm okay with this I'm okay with this

1:03:39 Good question what did I say? I was like, "Yeah, that's maybe too much." overrated. okay. It's not a podcast, but it's Yeah, it's not that I think it's like It's closed. I think that's Mafia game. They dropped it from Founders Fund. That was like really overrated. like the comments I've seen from some VCs like I don't know how you can write that on X like people were like yo this is like the most crazy format I've seen in my life bro YouTube and just watch content creators have been making for years and I love mafia as a game I used to watch Mafia from beta squad I'm still watching those are fun because those content creators they know how to be entertaining In mafia games with beta squad, you can see chunks for example and we start singing. Did we see Danfield singing? No, because is the founder. He's not funny. That's how it works. And nothing against Dan. I love Dan. He's really cool. But I just think, how can I say it? The problem is it's not how can I say it? It's not funny enough. And the hype that's that three

1:05:05 Episodes had was too much. I know because like part of it is because of the celebrities they had. Congrats for them. I think also it was part of it was because the we saw them differently. The production was very high quality. But I think if you remove the quality of the cameras, the quality of the guests, if you just okay, replace like the production with like okay just footage from phones for example. Add to that you remove some ad everything you just put random people. Would you watch that? I'm not sure. I think no one would care. That's why because at the end the characters weren't funny enough and sane enough. And I think that's for me that was like yeah one of the most like underrate overrated media production I think in the last weeks. I hate that the hype was like too much for it.

1:05:53 Right. So one thing that we might share Adil right so is like you're constantly checking right what is actually working right and you're trying different like you know formats and then seeing like you know what works killing what doesn't right so now one thing that we are building at market tricks is like you know we simulate real users right to find out right know that gap before you actually ship a product out right so do you ever wish right you could test one of the formats before you spend 3 weeks actually making it. Good question. I don't know. I mean the I would tell you my problem with that is like even if you give me an answer thanks to your tool I would be like I need to follow my gut feeling and only my gut feeling will show me if it's right or wrong. That said, I still think it's useful for so many like specific industries and this relation helps a lot like that's something I've tried a little bit of time like okay what will happen if this and this and this as I told there's some patterns there's some templates so it's you can identify those patterns and see what works what doesn't science I just think that yeah in my case I just believe in experiences like I will keep doing it until it doesn't work and I had this debate with Gabrielle I was working with for long time. We're like, "Yeah, we

1:07:18 Should do this, we should do that." And then the only way to settle the debates is by trying and trying like in real time with three people and see what works and what doesn't. Yeah. And so if there's someone out there Ali right now, right, that who wants to build a media company, right, and then I mean maybe a niche media business, right? But like, you know, think that's actually crowded, right? Because if you've come into tech media, right, which is again like it's a crowded space, right? And then it's one of the most covered spaces on earth as well, right? And you've just said that it's just boring, right? What would you tell them?

1:07:58 Good question. I think lower the productions in the beginning. People like they think that they need high quality mics and everything to make it work. In the beginning, I think you need a good sound. like the minimum that is required for people to watch something. and I would say maybe the most important thing for me is like respect people attention. That's all. People don't do that usually and people don't have time. No one has time anymore and people has a like they have a lot not lots lot of options like limited options on YouTube on X on everything. So try to find the space where you feel like okay if someone would make this I would you watch it yourself and I see things there's a lot of space like lots of space for people to make great stuff in tech or in general like even media in general and I've seen it even like I watch lots of soccer media and still every month somebody new show up and he comes up with this new concept and or like something different or something like unique or like even the same concept like just with their own style and their own way and this works. Okay.

1:09:02 So, I don't think the space will always be there. And also maybe the only thing I would say just be consistent. I think it's as I said like it's I know it's complicated because some people start podcast they don't finish. Some people like they start making videos they don't finish. So just keep doing those and the more you do them the more it helps and consistency matters. Yeah. And the improvement not just dropping the same like 100 times. I think you need like every time to see okay how I can make it better and better and better. Right. Right. And it works. Right. So we are almost back at Founders Inc. again. Adil right. So where do people find you and Silicon Mania? Good question. X I think it's the where I spend most of my time. LinkedIn too if they want.

1:09:44 Yeah. I think X is the best place right now. So yeah. Right. And this has been super fun. Adiv, thanks a lot. Really enjoyed it. Yes. All right. videos.